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cs1992
Tar Sands
Joined: Dec 20, 2005
Posts: 23
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 Posted:
Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:52 am Post
subject: This Solar Panel company needs to be investigated |
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I have mentioned this company before (DBKsolar.com) and they
continue their claims.
DBK Solar claims to have a 3kw & 1.5kw panels that are only ~15
sq ft in surface area. Their website now claims to be IEC 61215
certified.
Through e-mail conversations, they have repeatedly assured me
that these panels are legitimate. I was told to wait until a
dealer was available in my area if I was hesitant in any manner
so I could see a system first hand. I am in NC and and most of
their dealers are located in CA.
I apologize for beating this horse, but this company truly irks
me. Claims of this nature need to be investigated and
neutralized if they are proven false.
I suppose that IEC certificaton has plucked my last nerve. If I
lived in southern California, I'd be paying them a visit. Anyone
in southern California care to follow up?
DBK Solar |
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NeoPeasant
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Oct 12, 2004
Posts: 964
Location: Giant Pickup Truck Country
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Posted:
Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:08 pm Post
subject: Re: This Solar Panel company needs to be investigated |
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The demo picture is clearly a fraud. The wattmeter operates by
making a voltage measurement and an amperage measurement at the
same time, and displaying the product of the two measurements as
watts. If you look at the photograph, the otherwise open output
leads of the cell are connected to the extremely high impedance
voltmeter inputs of the wattmeter. It is impossible for any
significant current to flow and consequently any significant
wattage to be measured.
Secondly if the cell were generating 2.8 kilowatts as claimed,
it would have to be attached to a load dissipating that 2.8
kilowatts. IOW something continuously generating the heat of two
plug in space heaters running full blast. Where is the load?
_________________
The knowledge to survive post peak will not come from our
laboratories. It will come from our museums. |
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NeoPeasant
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Oct 12, 2004
Posts: 964
Location: Giant Pickup Truck Country
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Posted:
Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:26 pm Post
subject: Re: This Solar Panel company needs to be investigated |
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There was an
earlier post where a different DBK solar panel demo picture
was clearly exposed as a fraud. In that case, the shadows proved
that the sun was hitting the panel from the side at an extremely
low angle, making it impossible to recieve much solar input, and
once again there was no load.
The url to the earlier fraudulent demo picture now takes you to
the more recent fraudulent demo picture.
_________________
The knowledge to survive post peak will not come from our
laboratories. It will come from our museums. |
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coyote
News Editor
Joined: Oct 23, 2005
Posts: 1415
Location: East of Eden
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Posted:
Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:59 pm Post
subject: Re: This Solar Panel company needs to be investigated |
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It's right down the street from me, I'd be happy to visit them
-- problem is, I'd have no idea what to look for. Take a camera
with me maybe?
_________________
"If a path to the better there be, it begins with a full look at
the worst." — Thomas Hardy |
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Kez
Heavy Crude
Joined: May 06, 2005
Posts: 208
Location: North Texas
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Posted:
Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:08 am Post
subject: Re: This Solar Panel company needs to be investigated |
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| cs1992 wrote: |
| DBK Solar claims to have a 3kw & 1.5kw
panels that are only ~15 sq ft in surface area. Their
website now claims to be IEC 61215 certified. |
Well the top of the line 165 W Kyocera panels are 14.1 square
feet and they claim 14%-15% efficiency.
15 square foot = 1.3935456 square meters
Since at
absolute best in space only 1366 Watts hits a square
meter, and on earth at best it's around 1000 Watts/square meter,
they are clearly full of crap. Unless they are focusing the sun
in an area at least 3 square meters (using additional mirrors,
fresnel lenses, etc), and then getting 100% efficiency from the
panels, there is no way to get 3kw from that.
The picture also shows a typical silicon panel. To capture more
rays from the sun you can't even use silicon, but the very
expensive stuff, and that stuff costs thousands of dollars for
just 1 square foot of it and is designed to be focused on, not
some big huge 50" x 40" panel. They claim they are capturing the
stuff that silicon doesn't, yet they show a silicon panel. Big
time fraud in my estimation.
Someone go visit their 'office' to see if they are even there. |
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Alton
Coal
Joined: Nov 07, 2006
Posts: 2
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Posted:
Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:27 am Post
subject: Re: This Solar Panel company needs to be investigated |
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I'm attending a demonstration at DBK tomorrow (Wednesday, Nov.
8th). I'll be happy to pursue any reasonable questions anyone
may present. |
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Alton
Coal
Joined: Nov 07, 2006
Posts: 2
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Posted:
Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:38 am Post
subject: Re: This Solar Panel company needs to be investigated |
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I stand corrected on my previous posting. I'm attending the
demonstration at DBK on the 15th of November, not on the 8th as
previously stated. |
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RandyPark
Coal
Joined: Jan 21, 2006
Posts: 4
Location: Toronto
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Posted:
Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:17 am Post
subject: Re: This Solar Panel company needs to be investigated |
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Okay, so I ran into DBK today, started
searching, found this post, read down thinking "here it comes"
then.... nothing! Did Alton ever visit DBK?
_________________
Randy Park
Speaker, Author <b>Thinking for Results</b>
web site <b>www.EnergyPredicament.com</b> |
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gg3
Expert
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 3429
Location: California, USA
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Posted:
Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:02 am Post
subject: Re: This Solar Panel company needs to be investigated |
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I just did a bit
of research and came up with some interesting stuff
--- One: contractor's license??
---
They claim to be a licensed contractor and yet I was unable to
find a record of their name or license.
From DBK's website:
| Quote: |
"DBK currently consists of three
divisions: Engineering and Construction, Solar and Power
Generators.
DBK Engineering and Construction is a California
Licensed General Engineering Contractor, bonded and
insured; specializing in designing and installing solar
power systems." |
URL for above:
DBK page link
Now we go look up records for all California contractors with
similar names. First we go here:
California Contractor search link
Then we try typing "DBK" into the search, and the first listing
starts with DBL. So next we proceed by typing "DBH" into the
search, since this should bring up all listings starting with
DBH, that is, going through DBI, DBJ, and DBK.
This also produces nothing on DBK. Instead we get:
| Quote: |
DBH CONSTRUCTION
DBH CONSTRUCTION
DBJB INC
DBL D FISH
DBLA INC
DBLT NASCA CONSTRUCTION
...etc.
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That is, no listing for a DBK-anything. Unless I'm missing a
subtlety somewhere, DBK should be listed between DBJB and DBL D
FISH (the latter is probably a reference to the name of the
license holder, for example Doug Fish).
(Note if you try this, the first column shows "name type," where
the term "DBA" frequently recurs, but that stands for "Doing
Business As," which is a term for a sole proprietorship that
uses a business name to represent the business activities of an
individual person. This use of "DBA" has nothing whatsoever to
do with the alphabetization of the "Contractor name" column, nor
with DBK.)
So now we have two possible hypotheses here.
One, DBK has mis-quoted the name under which they do in fact
hold a valid General Engineering Contractor's license in the
state of California, or,
Two, DBK does not have such a license under any name, and thus
their claim is entirely fictional.
--- Two: Ho Ho Ho!, an IPO! ---
Now let's go back to DBK's home page.
There we find the following announcement:
| Quote: |
"Coming!
DBK Solar Utilities of California (IPO), DBK Solar
Utilities of Nevada (IPO) and other countries. Our
objectives are to design, build, construct and operate
one megawatts and larger solar power plants in the
stated locations. DBK is promoting a cleaner environment
while reducing our dependence on fossil fuel. Contact:
Synesi Group for investment opportunities. "
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The term "IPO" stands for "Initial Public Offering," which is to
say, the occasion on which the shares in a company's stock are
offered for sale to the public for the first time. For example a
few years ago Google had its first IPO, and the value of the
shares rapidly rose, and people with the foresight to invest in
Google earned a decent profit from doing so.
Any smart investor can tell you that one of the first things
they look for when scoping out a potential IPO, is information
on the company's management
team. There are a couple of types that investors tend to
look for. One is a management team composed of people with
verifyable track records: resumes that can be checked, that
include background with companies that can also be checked out
to see if they are successful. Two is a management team composed
of unknowns who seem to be smart & capable and who can be
interviewed in some depth to determine if they have what it
takes to make a successful company. Usually in the latter case
there will be a "board of advisors" as well as the board of
directors, and the advisors will include people with verifyable
track record who are in effect acting as mentors to the new
smart kids on the block.
However, seldom does a company go directly to an IPO. More
often, a company goes through an initial fund raising stage, to
raise capital from "friends & family," who know the key people
at the company well enough to decide if the venture is a
worthwhile investment. Next the company may go through a
"Regulation D Offering," or some other mechanism where it raises
additional funds from sophisticated investors on the basis of
personal introductions. Only after a company has operated for
long enough to have built up some track record, is it likely to
go to an IPO.
In any case, companies expecting to offer stock to the public
typically promote their management teams on their websites: the
board of directors, the board of advisors, the various CXOs or
at least the CEO and key management people (sales, engineering,
etc.). Typically you will see this information on a page link
called "management team" or you'll find it in the "About (XYZ
Company)" link.
Well guess what?
No such page that I could find. Nada, zip, nyet.
What should we make of that?
I'll tell you what I make of all of it, taken together.
--- Three: If it ducks like a
quack*... ---
(*Note for non-native-English
speakers: that's a pun. The normal usage is, "If it
quacks like a duck, it must be a duck." This is often used in
the context of expressing skepticism that someone or something
is not exactly what they claim. However, the word "duck" can
also be used as a verb that means "to quickly hide," and the
word "quack" can also be used as a noun that means "a faker who
claims to practice a profession, for example, as a medical
doctor." Thus, the translation in literal terms would be, "If it
quickly hides like someone who is faking...")
I may be wrong, but it would seem to me that DBK has been
working its way toward promoting IPOs in solar utilities using
their panels. And the whole "look and feel" about it, suggests
to me something called a "pump & dump" operation.
First, you build up what appears to be a viable company. Next,
you offer stock to the public. Initially a small group of
insiders invests in the company, and they are fully aware of the
nature of what's being done. After that, you start promoting the
stock publicly, and members of the public start to buy. The
share price goes up: looks as if the company is doing well,
shares are gaining value, everyone is set to earn a decent
profit if the trends continue. This is the "pump" stage: pumping
up the value of the company.
However, at that point the initial group of insiders sells their
shares into the public market at a much higher price than they
originally paid. They make serious profits and then they go
away, "laughing their way to the bank," as it were. This is the
"dump" stage: dumping the early shares back onto the market
where they are eagerly snapped up by the next wave of people who
think they have found a good thing.
After that, the company just drifts and goes nowhere. The
initial investors have gotten theirs, the company's existence
serves no further purpose. As time goes by, the company's share
price sinks back down to its real value, which is very very low:
often, next to nothing. The subsequent investors are left
holding stock that's worthless, having watched their money go
'round and 'round before it finally goes down the drain.
Yes, doing the ol' pump & dump is very illegal.
---Four: what to do about
this---
On the surface it looks like it might be worth blowing the
whistle and reporting these guys to the SEC for an
investigation. However, SEC like most Federal agencies, has a
serious backlog and will need more substantial evidence before
deciding whether the case is truly a law enforcement issue.
Thus it would be worthwhile for people here to investigate this
on their own, and then file reports to SEC if it appears
something illegal is actually going on.
Anyone here who has experience doing venture investments, should
make an innocent inquiry to DBK and ask for the usual
information an investor would request. Also ask to speak with
people on the management team, by way of doing your own due
diligence.
If you think you've got something illegal here,
then bundle up all of
your email & other correspondence with DBK and call up the SEC
to let them know what you have. If you go in there with
something that is more substantial evidence of a scam, they will
make it a priority to investigate and bring charges if needed.
Or it might turn out that this is entirely legitimate, including
the claims of producing more electricity per square meter of
full sunlight than even comes from the sun in the first place.
After all, stranger things have happened, and the French
government has just started to put its UFO files on the
internet.
Either way, happy hunting! |
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MD
Community Manager
Joined: May 02, 2005
Posts: 2895
Location: What did he do now?
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Posted:
Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:10 am Post
subject: Re: This Solar Panel company needs to be investigated |
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The only way you will take these guys down is to actually buy
their systems after getting them to make prosecutable fraudulent
claims.
It may even take multiple buys and multiple complaints from
within their jurisdiction to get action.
Thus is the reality of this kind of internet fraud.
Anything less and they will simply disappear and pop up again
elsewhere.
Give it up. Ignore them.
_________________
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener
than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can
stop the march of events."
Robert A. Heinlein
md@peakoil.com |
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Aaron
800 lb Gorilla
Joined: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 6288
Location: Houston
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Posted:
Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:23 am Post
subject: Re: This Solar Panel company needs to be investigated |
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Legitimate companies don't use privacy listing
on their domain name.
The WHOIS for this website intentionally hides the actual owner
of the domain.
This is a scam.
_________________
"We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time." - TS Eliot* |
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Bioman
permanently banned
Joined: Feb 08, 2007
Posts: 74
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Posted:
Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:04 am Post
subject: Re: This Solar Panel company needs to be investigated |
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I never believe companies with crappy, ugly websites. The
website is clearly the first proof of a company's seriousness
and trustworthiness.
Look at PO - well kept and stylish. Very credible!! |
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Sierrasparky
Coal
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 2
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Posted:
Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:35 pm Post
subject: Re: This Solar Panel company needs to be investigated |
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Hi everyone
I too stumbled onto this site..
I too was concerned over the claims made.
They do have a contractors license
D B K ENGINEERING & CONSTRUCTION
300 CARLSBAD VILLAGE DR #108A
CARLSBAD, CA 92008
Business Phone Number:
(760) 804-5760
Other than that I have not a clue.
If they do have some sort of Pv panel that pruduces 10 times
more than any other Cudos. Although I cannot believe that cost
is so much. so these folks are Greedy
THe whole PV industry is Greedy as far as I see it. Those
current panels should not cost what they do. I just don't see
how they could cost so much. We are getting ripped off. I think
the actual profit margin is way to high... |
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hqs008
Coal
Joined: Dec 02, 2007
Posts: 2
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Posted:
Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:54 am Post
subject: Re: This Solar Panel company needs to be investigated |
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| Please tell me DBK SOLAR product is badly? I am
just thinking of ordering their product. Thank you very much! |
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Jeremyp
Coal
Joined: Apr 30, 2008
Posts: 1
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Posted:
Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:49 pm Post
subject: Re: This Solar Panel company needs to be investigated |
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With all due respect, Sierrasparky's post above makes a serious
claim that is simply untrue. Of course, we all hope and expect
the solar industry to be priced better, and one might think that
a solar company has a generous profit margin. But please, do us
all a favor, and know what you're writing about before you make
major claims like "the whole PV industry is Greedy".
Solar panels cost what they cost: about $3-4/watt. Inverters,
wires, conduit, junction boxes, etc. cost what they cost: about
$1-2/watt. Engineering, sales, admin & running any good business
cost what they cost: about $1-2/watt. The going price for solar
(in California) is about $8/watt. If you truly understand how
one runs a solar company, you'll knowthat your profit margin is
somewhere between 5% and 15% after overhead expenses. Not
"greedy" by any definition.
Trust me, we all want solar to be less expensive. But by making
erroneous claims about what the cost "should" be when you don't
actually understand what the true costs ARE, only does harm to
the progress for growing the solar industry. Solar is not a high
margin business - it's more like a construction business with a
technology angle.
By the way: if people have more information on DBK's claims
being untrue, wrong, or exaggerated, please post!!
Thank you. Jeremy |
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